[Originally posted on 05/01/12 on the Duolingo French for English speakers forum by ApoorvaJ]
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Well, it’s easy to me understand this because portuguese works this way as well. Articles has this power to determinate vagueness or exceptionality. For example, in portuguese: “Eu sou um professor” (i am a teacher) “um” express exceptionality and there should be more in this statement: → “Eu sou um professor com experiência” (i am a teacher with experience). So now we know that you’re no longer a regular teacher and gave a sense for the use of “um” (‘un’ in french). On the other hand, If there was no need to specify, you should not use “um”: → “Eu sou professor”. So the statement is complete, we know now that you belong the qualification of a regular teacher. 🙂
I believe yes. The user @tfebrey just confirmed that spanish works this way as well. Now we need a french speaker to attest this in french: → Je suis un professeur avec expérience. → Je suis professeur. → Je suis un professeur expérimenté. → “Je suis professeur avec expérience.” (wrong?)
Sitesurf [contributor]
All good to me, except the last one: “je suis un professeur avec expérience”
- je suis un honnête professeur (adjective before noun)
- je suis un professeur qui aime lire (+ relative clause)
Now a bit tougher: – il est professeur de chinois (he is a Chinese teacher) – c’est un professeur de chinois (he is a Chinese teacher) – c’est un professeur chinois (he is a Chinese teacher)
C’est literally translates to “it is”, so c’est un professeur de chinois or c’est un professeur chinois both have un because the literal translation is “it is a …”. However c’est is also used in some cases instead of il or elle.
Now the first two – il est professeur de chinois and c’est un professeur de chinois – both mean he is a teacher and he teaches Chinese. The last one – c’est un professeur chinois – means he is a teacher of Chinese origin (or background).
As for the adjectives, I believe an article is used to distinguish between the indefinite quality or definite quality of the adjective. Example: Je suis un honnête professeur or je suis un professeur brun versus je suis l’honnête professeur or je suis le professeur brun.
For relative clauses (qui aime lire or avec expérience), I’ll ask a native Parisian friend of mine.
can somebody explain this more comprehensively? I’m sensing that there’s more explainable difference in the meaning of each ‘he is a Chinese teacher’ translation
@Kwillsen Not exactly, the first two sentences have the same meaning (though « Il est » and « C’est » cannot replace one another in every sentence, in this one they mean the same).
So the thing left is « professeur de chinois » or « professeur chinois ». The first is the exact translation of « teacher of Chinese », meaning that his teaching competence is Chinese language (« de » creates a link between « professeur » and « chinois », not between « il » and « chinois », so this « de » adds information to « professeur »). The second possibility, « professeur chinois » is only two adjectives, they both add information to the subject (« Ça » (c’est)). So « C’est un professeur chinois » means that he is both a teacher and a Chinese person. But a teacher from China can teach other subjects than just Chinese. E.g. « C’est un professeur chinois de mathématiques » : He is a math teacher from China. Although, in oral language, we tend to separate information, we would be likely to say something like « C’est un professeur chinois, il enseigne les mathématiques » (He is a teacher from China, he teaches math) or « C’est un professeur de mathématiques qui vient de Chine » (literally: He is a math teacher who comes from China).
he is what I was taught formally (grew up in Quebec)
il est professeur de chinois = he is a chinese teacher (you leave off the un/une) il est professeur des chinois = he is a teacher of the chinese il est le professeur = he’s the teacher (specific i.e. of this class we are in right now) c’est le professeur = it’s the teacher
if you throw the ‘un/une’ in, it will sound like you are saying ‘one teacher’ as opposed to ‘a teacher’…. which is fine if that is actually what you are trying to say. i.e. He is one teacher… what do you expect him to do.
As for the original question…. probably because some king or pope decided to do it that way 800 years ago. That’s the way it is in French (or any other language) try not to get too caught up in the why.
However, you would say “Je suis un bon professeur.” You use the article when there is an adjective.
In Arabic, you say “ana talib” without the article as well, i.e. “I’m a student”. “Ana at-talib” is “I’m the student” as one would expect. It’s funny, it really seems like English is an exception here…
You can do the same in German: “Ich bin Student” (I am a student). As if the “being that noun” is treated like an adjective.
This is even more confusing because the capital S shows that this is a noun, and not an adjective.
In French when you talk about a profession you do not use the article. Then you say: Je suis professeur./ Je suis médecin. etc
Just in case you happen to learn Spanish in Duolingo too: “Yo soy __ profesor” but “I am a teacher”. While I am not qualified to answer your “why?” I would still like to point out that looking at related languages one might have an “oh…THAT’S how they do it!” moment that helps you connect the dots. 😉
We do this in Portuguese and I was trying to explain the lack of article (which seems so natural to us), but couldn’t come up with the idea… It’s exactly what you said! We sometimes use the profession as though it’s an adjective.
As with most language related questions relating to “why…?” it is just the way it is. Language is somewhat arbitrary in its nature. It is probably bad advice to say both are acceptable. Don’t use the article…
When using “Il est”, “Je suis” to describe what one one is, you do not use a definite article. But if you use “C’est”, you will need to use one.
For example: Je suis étudiant Il est étudiant
C’est un étudiant Ce sont des étudiant
I think ‘ce’ would also become ‘ces’ because of the plural nature of the noun…happy to be corrected 🙂
Nope! 😉 « Ce sont » is the right plural form of « C’est » (contraction of « Ce » and « est »). Don’t ask me why, I have no clue… But I would say that « C’est » and « Ce sont » are quite particular, those expressions are frozen, it is the normal way to describe something in general. It is particular because « ce » is the subject by itself here (not being a demonstrative linked to a noun). E. g. « Ces chats sont blancs » (Those cats are white), the subject is « chats » and « ces » just add demonstration to this sentence.
But, there are some common “frozen” expressions in French (C’est, qu’est-ce que…)
I am a teacher : “Je suis professeur” I am a math teacher : “Je suis un professeur de mathématiques”
Sitesurf [contributor]
the rule is that the French drop the article when the profession is alone, but as soon as the profession is qualified (with an adjective), the article comes back
je suis professeur je suis un professeur heureux
However, specialised teachers usually say “je suis professeur de mathématiques (d’anglais, de biologie…)”
Sitesurf [contributor]
if you say ‘je suis un professeur qui aime ses élèves’ the article is mandatory, though, because it means that other teachers may not like their students.
Professions, if unmodified, are often treated as adjectives, not nouns. So, like the sentence “I am small,” where small carries no article, it is “I am professor.” However, if the profession is modified, “I am a good professor” or “I am a professor who loves his students,” the article must be used: “Je suis un bon professeur” ou “Je suis un professeur qui aime ses élèves.”
It’s just one of those rules that don’t have to make any sense. We have a ton of them in English!
You don’t use an indefinite article with professions in French unless there’s an adjective used with it like je suis un bon professeur.
If one is stating their profession, the article is dropped. This is also true when it comes to being an only child, it’s grammatically considered a profession (ex. Je suis fille unique) Hope this helped 🙂
Germans use this form also. JFK’s famous statement “Ich bin ein Berliner” should have been “Ich bin Berliner.” There was a famous pastry called the Berliner, so what he really said was “I am a jelly donut.” They loved him so much they still cheered.
Short answer, occupations CANNOT use the indefinite article. This is the same in Spanish. Exception though if you add an adjective, such as He is a good professor, then you need it. Otherwise, it’s I am professor in Romance languages.
Nobody mentioned “Je suis avocat” (I am a lawyer) vs. “Je suis un avocat” (I am an avocado). 😛
This actually helped me remember to not include the article, so thank you! Now I have a question: Does this work similarly to the teacher rule? If a lawyer wanted to stress being an experienced lawyer would he say “Je suis un avocat expérimenté” or would that translate as “I am an experienced avocado”?
Sitesurf [contributor]
“Je suis un avocat expérimenté” is correct to translate to/as “I am an experienced lawyer” (advocado is fruit).
Sitesurf [contributor]
@rl2240 – quite right so, but you can say “je parle l’anglais” (languages are masculine, so “je parle le chinois”).
Sitesurf [contributor]
you are almost there:
je suis professeur
je suis un bon professeur
je suis professeur d’anglais
je suis un bon professeur d’anglais
They do not have the same meaning, some words totally change their meaning if you change their gender.
Un livre: “a book” Une livre: “a pound” (both the currency and the mass)
Bonjour!!!! Une question pour vous- Comment pouvons-nous déterminer si un verbe doit être conjugué au passé avec Etre ou Avoir?
Sitesurf [contributor]
Bonne question ! The rule is that “avoir” is the basic auxiliary to build a compound tense. But, of course, there are lots of exceptions:
Merci beaucoup!!! Well, there are around 18 etre verbs. So, is there a simpler way to learn these? Or are there any short forms?
Dr & Mrs Vandertramp – fill in one of the movement verbs for each letter. For example d – descendre, r – retourner, etc.
un means one, and je suis means I am, so would you say I am a professor, or I am one professor?
Sitesurf [contributor]
I think that “one” is not necessary with a single subject (you cannot be 2 professors anyway).
- It does not sound right! 2. If you say someone’s profession you must use a DEFINITE article which in this case is “le.”
Sitesurf [contributor]
Non, pas du tout : professions are introduced without any article after state verbs (être, devenir…)
Thank you for introducing me, as always, to another great topic Sitesurf !
I have looked up state verbs, and come up with the list: être (to be), paraître (to appear), sembler (to seem), devenir (to become), demeurer (to remain), rester (to stay), avoir l’air (to have the appearance), passer pour (to pass for). ref: https://francais.lingolia.com/en/grammar/verbs#:~:text=The%20stative%20verbs%20in%20French,l’air%20%2C%20passer%20pour%20.
Then would you say ? :
- Je suis cuisinier. (I am a cook.) ; Je reste cuisinier. (I remain a cook
- Je suis voyageur. (I am a traveler.) ; Je reste voyageur. (I remain a traveler.)
- Je suis ingénieur. (I am an engineer.) ; Je suis devenu ingénieur. (I have become an engineer) ;
Sitesurf [contributor]
All your examples are correct.
Just a detail: “voyageur” is not a profession and it can be a noun or adjective.
“Je suis voyageur” can mean you like traveling or, figuratively, you like moving from place to place, even mentally.
“Je suis un voyageur” more practically means that you are not the pilot or guide here.
Hi, I’m a French native. For me, when you say “Je suis professeur”, it’s as if the word “professeur” was no longer a noun but an adjective in this context. That’s why we don’t use the article “un”. (You don’t say “I am a smart”, you say “I am smart”.)
Un professeur = a teacher But you don’t really say “Je suis un professeur” to say “I am a professor”. It’s not grammatically wrong but it would sound unnatural or badly translated. It’s as if you were saying “I am a smart person” instead of “I am smart”. Hope this makes sense.
a lot of good thought provoking, reasonable explanations here, thanks! However, I need finite rules to remember as simply as possible in order to remember. I’m looking for something concise and I found an article here, see the section about omission of the article: https://about-france.com/french/articles.htm It is concise, but I’m not sure if it’s all inclusive, which is what I’m seeking so I don’t have to memorize multiple sets of rules separately.
Sitesurf [contributor]
I suggest you write down your own concise summary once you have studied and understood all the rules.
“You’re only as good as your own efforts” = “On n’est jamais aussi bien servi que par soi-même”.
Duolinguists 